Collection of atheist and atheism motivational posters

Posted On Oct 25, 2008 at 2:50 am

Here is a collection of 41 atheism motivational posters. If you know of any more that are not on the list, post them in the comments!

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creepermclurker's Avatar

creepermclurker Apr 09, 2009

B.S.

Citation?

dave thayer's Avatar

dave thayer Aug 30, 2009

I don't reject the idea of god, but the gods expressed by the existing religions are silly, if not horrible to me. The threat of punishment by most religions for not believing is proof that they are false. On the same token, I don't feel pressured into having to believe in a god, as most religious people are (when I was "religious" it was out of fear). I believe that the christian religion is a religion of hatred because it promises hell before it promises salvation (those who do not accept jesus are damned).

I also don't see the limitations of the natural selection theory to be a proof for god. Indeed, evolution seems is a creative process, as seen in the complex camouflage of butterflies, the colors of birds, adn the intellect of humans: natural selection cannot explain this - this does not mean that god created it; it just shows the limitations of science.
And just because there might be 'soul' this also does not prove the existence of 'god'. God is a very limited theory which may or may not be true, and we have no right to use the word as a political tool. I believe that those who utter the word 'god' are either being manipulated because they are of limited mental or spiritual capacity, or they are the ones benefiting politically or economically from religion. Religion is simply 'crowd control'. I think if we had a healthy society we would need no religion, and the ending of religion is the beginning of a healthy society, where people are educated beyond simple and clearly wrong explanations for how life was created.

Thomas's Avatar

Thomas May 26, 2010

First of all, the Bible is pretty clear. It says that if you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and that he died on the cross for your sins, then you will live forever with God in Heaven. If you don't you shall perish. This is pretty much summed up in John 3:16. In fact, for most of the New Testament, you will find passages declaring the love of God, not the Hellfire and Brimstone that most people hear. Secondly, it is true that we can see the effects of microevolution. The development of camouflage, more acute senses, elongated beaks, etc. pretty much any change that helps a certain species adapt to their surroundings. I do believe, however, that macroevolution, for lack of a better phrase, is just wrong. The theory itself is full of "maybe"s and "believe"s, far too many for science anyway, and the so-called "inferior" life forms are still around. Also, if we are the top of the evolutionary chain, so far, why do we have absolutely no natural, physical methods of survival? We have no claws, we have herbivore teeth,we can't swim, run, or fly, better than any other animal. We have no protective coverings, we can't rely on size, or a show of strength. We have opposable thumbs, like other primates, and our intelligence really only seems to be helpful when we have resources to draw on. We are the smartest creatures on the planet, allegedly, right above dolphins. Somehow, in the whole evolutionary process, we lost all of the natural physical tools that our "ancestors" had, with the exception of thumbs, and we gained intellect that surpassed a marine mammal. How is it that our "ancestors" aren't second on the list? I'm just curious as to why, if there is so much irrefutable scientific evidence, there are still so many questions.

Larry's Avatar

Larry Apr 11, 2009

Easy answer to being "under attack"...keep your mouth shut. I am (for the most part) considered a Christian...I don't actively go to church, and I don't pray (in the traditional sense)...but I also don't volunteer my religious view every time I open my mouth. I have met a rather disproportionate number of people who claim either Paganism (Wicca and the like) or Atheism as their religion (or anti-religion, as is, in each case appropro.) and I have yet to meet one...JUST ONE...who doesn't rattle on about it from the first moments of any conversation.
It seems to me, if you want to avoid persecution for your beliefs...don't go 'round spouting rhetoric to everyone you meet.
I have no discordance with anyone's beliefs, and I expect the same from those I meet...but if the collective thought amongst Atheists is that it takes someone smart to deny the existance of God, well...I can show you a whole room full of Kindergardener-age kids who can back you all up.
That's not an attack on intelligence, just a viewpoint concerning the lack of reference that children have that just happens to coincide with Atheistic beliefs. Instead of attacking a religion for it's faults, why not bend your (obviously) formidable insights towards a more productive goal? Religion has been a force (problematic or not) for almost as long we mankind has been able to communicate amongst his own kind...you are not going to release the mindless masses from the grip of something ingrained into our psyche with clever posters or ad campaigns...I don't think there will ever be a world without a religion...Humans need something to believe in more than they need companionship.
And while I am on about it, helping those who are less fortunate than yourself is a wonderfully humanitarian effort and a greatly fulfilling prospect...it matters not if you are (misguidedly or not) doing it because you feel it is your duty under your religion's tenets, or because you believe in Karma...whatever your reason, good deeds are still good deeds.
I myself have never been at ease with the concepts that Catholicism spreads. I suppose, in my own way, I have come to terms with my faith, and I no longer need the "shepherding" that is offered by organized religions.

Wynnde

Reklamfox's Avatar

Reklamfox Jun 11, 2010

Its that classic line of Christian thinking that all social morality comes from the bible and a belief in God, and no one would have any kind of morals or basic respect and decency without a 2000 year old book telling them what to do. Any intelligent and functional member of society can tell you that it is most certainly in your best interest to treat your fellow man with respect and kindness in the hope that they would have enough respect to do the same. This rudimentary system of give and take is something that MOST atheists have a very clear grasp on. We don't need a God or any higher power to tell us to be good people, we just do it because its the right thing to do and it benefits us to help others. It's not selfish to expect that the kindness you show towards others should be returned. And it is quite ridiculous to expect that a book written 2000 years ago by the same people who believed they were backed by God when they stoned women to death should be considered the moral compass to run a country. America is not a Christian nation, it is a nation of free thinkers with the right to believe anything we choose. You want to be a Christian and teach your children about your faith? Thats fine, it's your choice and your business. But when the crazy religious nut jobs (of ANY faith) attempt to push their way into my public schools and try to indoctrinate my children then we have a major problem. How many atheists do you see attempting to force our lack of beliefs into public schools? Do not make the mistake that most religious people make and assume science is the same as atheism. And do not assume that all atheists are blood thirsty amoral Satan worshipers. Being alone doesn't mean being lonely. Why do you need a book to tell you that being a good person is the right thing to do anyway?

Labiofus's Avatar

Labiofus Jul 01, 2010

"If every human is equal," every human is NOT equal.

"and there is no divine force," define 'divine force' that means something different in almost every culture.

"then why do i need to obey a system of laws that was developed by a government that was founded by a bunch protestants?" because the needs of the many out-weigh the needs of the few. As a 'socially dependant' species those laws are made (theoretically) by the group to deem what is 'socially' acceptable. If you don't want to obey them, move to where there are no other people and you can do whatever you want, until then you are a part of a culture therefore you are 'suppose' to follow the rules of that culture.

"If evolution is a fact, not just a theory," evolution is proven and is a fact. To which extent is the current debate.

"what right to those pedantic old farts on capitol hill have to tell me what to do?" Because people like you and others of your species elected them.

"Shouldn't I be able to take whatever I want, and kill whoever I want as long as I CAN do it?" You can, in the earlier years of humans evolution it was simply the strong did survive. You can still do that but there are penalties for those actions because the rest of your species made the conscious decision to 'say' that those action are not acceptable.

"Evolution happened, allegedly," evolution did happen, it has been proven.

"because those that could survive or thrive, did. Therefore, if someone can't stop me from doing something, I should be allowed to do it." You are allowed to do whatever you want, but their are consequences for those actions as deemed by the rest of your species. Many species in nature banish, kill their like because of certain actions.

"And why help people? Why give money to charity when you can blow it on luxuries that make your life easier?" Good question, why does a wounded animal recieve help in licking their wounds from a parent or another of their species. Compassion, greed, almost every 'human' emotion/trait can be found within other species in nature.

"There is no right or wrong, no karmic balance, or immortal referee keeping score, there is only what people want to do." right versus wrong is an issue of morality, not science.

"It is honestly a chaotic and selfish belief that a random explosion sent a cosmic marble into pieces all throughout space, and somehow exactly one species on this planet became capable of speech. Despite a lack of natural defenses of any kind, it somehow managed to become the premier multicellular organism on the planet because of alleged intelligence, which we see everyday on the internet is just a myth." -- and the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your Master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree, somehow makes perfect, unquestionable sense to you?

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Ezio Jul 25, 2010

Your rudimentary understanding of biology has led you to the conclusion that there would ultimately be only one species left in the world. This is a fallacy. Creatures and pretty much everything in this little fish tank we call earth are interdependent.
Evolution does not have a set goal it is simply moving on so there's no reason why another species, or natural factor, can bring about the demise of what looks like an unbeatable species.
There are things that are difficult to account for in tracing evolution. These include adapting to climate change, being overtaken by other species that have adapted, and cultural variables. The reason we see undesirable traits live on in certain animal societies is because of the community protecting one another.
Humans do not have so many great defenses but what we accomplish is due to the effort of the group. We went from scavenging to encroaching land when we built societies. We used intellect and we developed better tools.
Looking at only the genes may be a mistake. (It makes me sweat to make such a bold statement without having the proper credentials.) You must account for all these little variables that can make a big difference. The theory is solid. I won't go into abiogenesis because the theory of evolution explains the variety of species.
A big blow to the theory would be a fossil inexplicably out of place, this is excluding those that move due to the earth it was in moving. Another big blow could be something like say a pegasus. It would require what is a statistical impossibility a mammal to develop avian wings for flight. The theory of evolution has passed these trials with flying colors.

James M. Anderson's Avatar

James M. Anderson Jul 17, 2010

"You do realize that Christians searching to understand God and how He created all of this (created it for himself, not for us) are the driving force behind most of the scientific advances since the dark ages?"

They were also the driving force behind it's suppresion and the burning of its creators. As for it not being for us? Not a very Humanist outlook on life you have.

"Many Christians still feel this way."

Of course they do.

"Evolution explains how animals have become so diverse, but not how humans separated from the rest of the animals."

Blatantly wrong. We came into existance the same way they did.

"The big bang explains how the universe was formed and how it is continuing to spread, but not where the cloud of cosmic dust came from."

Blatantly wrong. The big bang theory states that an infinitely dense mass expanded outward. MASS. The dust (really it was Hydrogen gas) cloud came into being.

"Yes we should continue the search for answers in every ethical way."

Morality is the embodiemeant of the Super Ego. In short, it's how we are trained to act. It is not set. Ethics don't matter.

"We may eventually find definitively that man evolved from the other animals,"

We already have. All life on Earth shares a common ancestor. This has been proven time and time again.

"but there are many of us who would not find that a contradiction of the truths of the Bible."

Then why don't you believe it already? Religion is a corruption of mankind.

Will's Avatar

Will Apr 08, 2009

"I have yet to meet an atheist that just relaxes in their world view."

This is almost certainly not true. A good number of nonbelievers don't bother to advertise their stance because it's simply not an issue they're dwelling on, so you've probably met many atheists and never even known it.

"You revel in your opposition to the belief systems. That means you define yourself by it."

I'm a skeptic and a cynic -- I enjoy and consider it important to take apart fallacious arguments, whether religious, political, scientific, or what have you. I'm no more defined by my opposition to religious belief than I am by my opposition to political belief, and if I bother to engage in debate it's in the sincere desire to come to a point in time where I will not have to be subjected yet again to the same woolly-headed thinking that I'm faced with, or better yet to have my own argument defeated and learn something new in the process.

The problem is simple -- if you do not literally live and die by every last command given throughout the entire bible then your Christian faith is hollow. If you pick and choose which portions of the book to listen to then you can't call yourself a Christian. More importantly once you discard some of the instructions of that book (stoning for disobedient children and those who work on Sundays for instance) there is no reason to attach special significance to any of it. Either it is a complete and inviolable text, without exception and with God's own imprimatur, or it's just another book. I've found value in plenty of portions of the book -- the Song of Solomon has some nice bits, and Jesus seemed like a decent if confused man. I don't call myself a Christian or pretend that the book has unique significance to me. I've also found valuable lessons in other ancient mythology, the poetry of e.e. cummings, and the allegory of Moby Dick. If I were to form an argument based on Dick's portrayal of hubris I would not call on Melville's authority to defend my argument, but examples of how pride -- in and out of that text -- lead to bad results. The ultimate shortcoming of the ethical teachings of the bible (aside from their own contradictions within the text) is that they almost all rest on the authority of God and the threat of damnation to justify them. In many cases there is no meaningful argument for these proscriptions without these threats and intimidation. Even the nice bits with Jesus are largely proclamations and parable without substantive argument behind them.

So, the argument for Christianity is that based solely on the (long since transcribed in difficult to translate ancient tongues, with many variants of the source texts in existence) word of an absolute deity who refuses to show himself or act directly to correct the faults of his own creation, we are to follow a byzantine and inconsistent code of conduct that advocates murder by mobs, discrimination, slavery, and war. The authority this god is presumed to have is derived entirely from claims made in a single book supposedly written by . . . himself. (Meanwhile a number of similar books with differing proscriptions and commands present similarly absolute arguments based on similar reasoning. The Christian bible makes no effort to justify itself over their counterclaims.)

My counter offer is that people mind their own business, make peace and fairness their first goals in conduct, and mostly just try not to be dicks. My argument rests on no authority but can rather be supported by the countless examples of how this manner of living leads to increased happiness and productivity for everyone, including the practitioner.

So no, when I'm at home or out for a drink or socializing I don't often go out of my way to bring up any particular religion. I'm far more likely to talk about some geeky tech stuff or music or food. But -- just like if someone were in my vicinity trying to sell Amway or gather a crowd to go queer stomping or steal a car -- when it's in my face I'll spare a few minutes to try and quell that noise.

Try Again.'s Avatar

Try Again. Apr 08, 2009

"Superseding your argument, God created us with conscience."

An interesting statement. But completely circumventing any semblance of an argument you seem to think you have, God created not one person with a conscience. As a matter of fact, God only created two people ever. From the good book itself, Genesis 3:22 / "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

What God DID give humankind was free will. With conscience, Eve wouldn't have eaten the apple from the tree; she would have already known the serpent was a manifestation of evil and was attempting to spoil the life she and Adam led. With free will, she made a conscious (not conscience) choice to take the apple over the warning of both God and Adam, leading to the aforementioned gain of a conscience and the expulsion from Eden.

You also write "We are created to do good things." The concept of free will is one of the largest cornerstones of most major religions, including Christianity; this essentially destroys your argument. People aren't created to "do" anything; the choices each person makes in life forge the consequences they face, good or bad. Stalin and Hitler exterminated 35 million people between their regimes; I find very few ways you could create any sort of "good" argument for these acts.

My point in making these statements is simply this: religion is both one of the most edifying and terrifying establishments in the history of mankind. Your approach to the discussion is simply to spout out what someone told you in Sunday school with no actual knowledge of the subject; might I suggest you actually read the Bible before you attempt to dictate Christianity to anyone?

Jeff's Avatar

Jeff Apr 09, 2009

^
Cop out.

Redalert's Avatar

Redalert Apr 09, 2009

Sorry I hit submit button prematurely. Sorry for the wrong grammar and everything else since english is not my primary language.

"An interesting statement. But completely circumventing any semblance of an argument you seem to think you have, God created not one person with a conscience. As a matter of fact, God only created two people ever. From the good book itself, Genesis 3:22 / "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

What God DID give humankind was free will. With conscience, Eve wouldn't have eaten the apple from the tree; she would have already known the serpent was a manifestation of evil and was attempting to spoil the life she and Adam led. With free will, she made a conscious (not conscience) choice to take the apple over the warning of both God and Adam, leading to the aforementioned gain of a conscience and the expulsion from Eden."

Man is free to do what he wants as long as it is within the boundary of being constructive. We are free to do good but not bad, we are not free to harm others. The constructive sense imprinted to all of us guide even the people and society who don't believe in God. This constructive sense is not same for everyone. It's basically the sense to do something good so people do stuff though it may be actually detrimental to others or destructive.

The serpent manipulated the constructive sense innate within us to fool Eve. If the serpent told her all along the truth she must not likely have eaten the forbidden fruit.

Try Again.'s Avatar

Try Again. Apr 08, 2009

"Duh.. religious people see charity and relief works as important to help their fellow man. You talk as if all religious people as self serving when in fact religious people with religious beliefs are more willing to perform selfless deeds."

You are generalizing again, and there is absolutely no proof you can show that religious people are more willing to do anything than a non religious person. Police officers and fire fighters put their lives on the line daily; this doesn't espouse some religious overtone. They might be religious; they aren't more courageous because of that fact, they are relevant because they know that what they do might have serious consequences for them, yet they do it anyway.

Religions may give you a belief structure, but they don't instantly make you less of a d-bag. The Avignon papacy proves this; the French line of kings in the late 14th century decided they could buy their way into heaven and created a pope in their own country they controlled; dividing the church in a massive plot to accumulate wealth and subjugate neighboring states with their new found "divine authority."

You can't look at the world with such a black and white set of blinders on; human beings aren't black and white and neither are religions. Times change, and with them so do religious doctrines.

That's right, religions do get things wrong. The big shocker is that people seem to forget that religions are created by... *gasp* humans! And humans, being their lovable, fallible selves, do occasionally screw things up. The proof in the pudding is if you, like they have in the past, open your mind to realize that having a belief structure doesn't necessarily make you right or wrong; it just gives you a compass through which to respond to other people's beliefs and ultimately should allow you to codify your beliefs into something more concrete.

Random's Avatar

Random Jun 02, 2009

Ok, I just have to throw this in here....you can't really consider humans black or white...just different shades of brown and tan....a truly white person is an albino and even then you can't really call them white....and i have yet to see a truly black human..just a really really really dark brown one.

The world exists with all differnt shades, emotions and actions and words are all different shades. EVERYTHING has an exception to the rule, everyone picks and chooses what to believe no matter what religion they're in. Everyone's oh-so-important views and beliefs can be challenged and altered when the need calls for it. A strict pro-lifer will consider abortion for her 12 year old daughter who was a vitcim of family rape if the pregnancy poses a life threat to one or both of the children. A devote preacher of 50 years may come to accept the evolutionary theory if someone takes the time to teach him and show him that this is not about denying the existance of god, but rather trying to understand how this all happened, why things are the way they are without using the fall back "because god wanted it that way" b.s. A family who is against the death penalty may scream for one when a loved one is brutally murdered...the list goes on and on. Nothing is black and white. Nothing is that simple. Remember, if god is omnipotent then he made lucifer with the full knowledge and intent of him becoming the devil. he created adam and eve and the tree of knowledge knowing that she would eat from it and summarily be cast aside. if god is omnipotent than there is no such thing as free will. as long as someone knows what you're going to do, when you do it and how you're going to do it than free will is a lie. just like the cake. ^_^

Orange Juce Jones's Avatar

Orange Juce Jones Dec 09, 2009

"The work is different because the UN workers are not expecting to go to heaven. They see this work as important to help their fellow man and not for some misguided reward in the after life like the missionaries."


I don't know if you are an Atheist or not I just disagree with the comment you made. I am not a missionary but the way I see and understand it is that they do not do this work for the reward of going to heaven but rather to help people who need it. There is no ulterior motive of pushing their religion down other people's throats or at least I hope not. You are correct in a way because there are some religious people out there who do good deeds just because they think that it will get them into heaven. These people will not go to heaven unless they realize the error of their thinking and follow their faith correctly. I think the purpose of most of the missionary work is to:

A. Take care of the fellow man in need.

B. Use the opportunity to share your beliefs with your fellow man.(Not force it upon them. Share only with those who wish to be shared with.)

This is the way that I view it. You may argue that point B is exactly what you're saying in your first comment but I guess it's all on how you interpret it. If I met you in the street and I decided I wanted to help you because you looked down on your luck, I would do so without thought of a reward. If I chose to spend time with you daily to help you and I noticed after a while that you didn't really seem to have a faith or religion I would ask you to share in mine. If you said no then I would not stop helping you and I would not try to force my religion on you. I would however ask why and ask that you at least give me a chance to explain to you my viewpoint. After that I would leave it alone. The Bible tells us that we should go out and fellowship with our brethren and spread the word of God. This to me means exactly what I just described with my scenario. I help people because I feel like it not because I think it will get me into heaven. I find that when talking on the subject of religion one cannot generalize every person of a particular religion or belief because it always leaves room for an argument. I would like to continue this conversation away from this site if you are interested.

Orange Juce Jones's Avatar

Orange Juce Jones Dec 09, 2009

"The work is different because the UN workers are not expecting to go to heaven. They see this work as important to help their fellow man and not for some misguided reward in the after life like the missionaries."


I don't know if you are an Atheist or not I just disagree with the comment you made. I am not a missionary but the way I see and understand it is that they do not do this work for the reward of going to heaven but rather to help people who need it. There is no ulterior motive of pushing their religion down other people's throats or at least I hope not. You are correct in a way because there are some religious people out there who do good deeds just because they think that it will get them into heaven. These people will not go to heaven unless they realize the error of their thinking and follow their faith correctly. I think the purpose of most of the missionary work is to:

A. Take care of the fellow man in need.

B. Use the opportunity to share your beliefs with your fellow man.(Not force it upon them. Share only with those who wish to be shared with.)

This is the way that I view it. You may argue that point B is exactly what you're saying in your first comment but I guess it's all on how you interpret it. If I met you in the street and I decided I wanted to help you because you looked down on your luck, I would do so without thought of a reward. If I chose to spend time with you daily to help you and I noticed after a while that you didn't really seem to have a faith or religion I would ask you to share in mine. If you said no then I would not stop helping you and I would not try to force my religion on you. I would however ask why and ask that you at least give me a chance to explain to you my viewpoint. After that I would leave it alone. The Bible tells us that we should go out and fellowship with our brethren and spread the word of God. This to me means exactly what I just described with my scenario. I help people because I feel like it not because I think it will get me into heaven. I find that when talking on the subject of religion one cannot generalize every person of a particular religion or belief because it always leaves room for an argument. I would like to continue this conversation away from this site if you are interested.

Thomas's Avatar

Thomas May 02, 2010

First, the Trinity can be compared to humans. There is your physical presence, your cognitive abilities, and you feelings. Body (Jesus), Mind (God the Father), Spirit (Holy Spirit). Secondly, I can tell that science is really advancing mankind. I mean GTA is totally a sign of forward motion, and there was a study done that proved that men like hot women. Phew, however does science do it. Finding all of the new viruses, and missile designs, and ways to enjoy sex with machines instead of other humans, genius! Science is obviously what is keeping us on top of the heap. Of course we have to take the good with the bad, the cures, the life support, medical techniques, prosthesis, etc. Science has indeed done a lot to move humanity forward, but don't you dare say that those were all invented by atheists. There are Christian nurses and doctors who practice all of these skills, and have you thought about what could be done with the money spent on the Large Hadron Supercollider? The giant track built, by the world half in France and half in Switzerland, for the sole purpose of seeing whether they can prove the big bang theory or kill us all with tiny blackholes in the attempt. The cost, of just building it, was around 6 Billion Dollars? Do you see religious people blowing that much money on a tower so that we can reach Heaven? Or blowing it all on a really nice Baptist potluck, where people can meet and greet and talk about there troubles with their fellow Christians, that not only attend the church but they live in the area?

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Scott Klarr May 03, 2010

>> There is your physical presence, your cognitive abilities, and you feelings. Body (Jesus), Mind (God the Father), Spirit (Holy Spirit).

The only problem is that our mind is part of our body, and there is no evidence to even suggest we have a "spirit" or soul.

>> There are Christian nurses and doctors who practice all of these skills, and have you thought about what could be done with the money spent on the Large Hadron Supercollider?... Do you see religious people blowing that much money on a tower so that we can reach Heaven?

You're joking right? There are churches built on pretty much every fucking street corner in America. I can drive 10 blocks and see 15 churches. Do you have ANY idea how much money churches gather (TAX FREE TOO!) and waste on building shit that does nothing for humanity? Giant crosses, statues, new buildings, etc. Do you have any idea how much money has been poured into the Vatican?

You seem to have a very misguided understanding of what science is for and what affect it has on the progression of society. You think the LHC is "just to prove the big bang theory"? No, it is going to help uncover some unknown details about the fundamentals of physics that will help the advancement of all sorts of technologies, namely new kinds of computers that will have dramatic impact in many fields including medical.

You apparently think that any money spent researching is wasted, but do you ever stop to realise how much research was required to build the foundations of the life you enjoy every day? Do you have ANY idea how much scientific knowledge has been hammered out slowly and at great expensive so that you can sit down at a computer and broadcast your ignorance all across the world with a click of the button? When you get in your car and drive to the hospital to get an injury fixed, you are relying on hundreds of years of research that, had you been there along the way when the first research was going on, you'd probably complain about "how much a waste of money all this pointless stuff is."

Thomas's Avatar

Thomas May 27, 2010

First of all, research is very important, when you are researching productive, beneficial things, like say stem-cells. Second, The LHC has been built for the following reasons,
1) To discover what mass is and how mass came from particle that previously were mass-less
2) To figure out what the majority of the universe is made of
3) To discover why antimatter is no longer in existence
4) To discover what the universe was like seconds after the Big Bang
5) To discover if there are other dimensions
This all came from the European Organization for Nuclear Research at,
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/lhc/WhyLHC-en.html
You may call me ignorant if you wish, for the question I am about to ask.
"....it is going to help uncover some unknown details about the fundamentals of physics that will help the advancement of all sorts of technologies, namely new kinds of computers that will have dramatic impact in many fields including medical."
How? I might be an idiot for not being able to see where this new computer and medical technology comes from, but I am eager to learn, so could you explain it to me?

P.S. I stop and wonder every day about all of the lives, resources, and time that were invested to make my current life what it is. I try to think of ways not to squander the life I have been given, or take for granted the luxuries given to me. And for someone that is so retrospective, you sure have a funny way of respecting the points of view that got us here. Do you ever wonder how many people died for their beliefs, fictitious or real, creating this country? No matter what science can put up, and I am not saying that science is evil, people will always be willing to die for what they truly believe in.

P.P.S. If you are going to chew me out, could you use correct grammar and less profanity in your tirades.

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Redalert Apr 12, 2009

"Nope. Not alien to me at all. I grew up in a religious environment and was actually always helped by other religious people because, unfortunately, we didn't have the means."

Do you happen to have any scientific means able to read the heart of those religious people that you seemed inclined to construe their actions as reward motivated and not out of sincere compassion and love?

"However, some of those who helped us were not religious at all. And, let me explain this to you in the clearest way possible: I do not believe in a higher power and I do not believe in an after life; therefore, I am expecting no sort of reward when I die, or during my time on earth, but I still continue to help others. Just so you know, you don't have to grow up in a "religious environment" to be "nurtured and love[d]"-my nephew is extremely loved by an atheist mom, uncles, and aunt every single day of his life and the result is an incredibly kind-hearted, funny, witty, and exceptionally intelligent (partly because he's not wasting his time with religion) eleven-year-old boy.Nope. Not alien to me at all. I grew up in a religious environment and was actually always helped by other religious people because, unfortunately, we didn't have the means. However, some of those who helped us were not religious at all. And, let me explain this to you in the clearest way possible: I do not believe in a higher power and I do not believe in an after life; therefore, I am expecting no sort of reward when I die, or during my time on earth, but I still continue to help others. Just so you know, you don't have to grow up in a "religious environment" to be "nurtured and love[d]"-my nephew is extremely loved by an atheist mom, uncles, and aunt every single day of his life and the result is an incredibly kind-hearted, funny, witty, and exceptionally intelligent (partly because he's not wasting his time with religion) eleven-year-old boy."

I wish you can satisfy his curiosity when your nephew asked where we all came from, justifying the mathematical probability that all what we see living now first came from non living.

"P.S. Andrea Yates' five children were very nurtured and loved in their religious home. So religious, she put God before all five of them."

Andrea Yates is a disturbed woman and what she did is not because of her belief in God, not because she grew up in religious environment but because she is mentally disturbed. Nobody here I think can claim religion taught her to kill innocent children.

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S reply Apr 12, 2009

"Do you happen to have any scientific means able to read the heart of those religious people that you seemed inclined to construe their actions as reward motivated and not out of sincere compassion and love?"

And do you have any religious means to explain why the non-religious do good for others? Listen, I'm not saying that all religious people help others because of religion, but the first comment that I replied to was stating just that. I'm just saying that people shouldn't need religion as the reason for helping and giving to the world. And by the way, it is psychologically proven that people help others for a selfish internal satisfaction- which in turn is rewarding for both sides.

"I wish you can satisfy his curiosity when your nephew asked where we all came from, justifying the mathematical probability that all what we see living now first came from non living."

My nephew knows all versions of creation and scientific explanations for life (probably better than most people do); he simply chose the one that made the most sense, the one that continues to expand, explore, and make breakthroughs. He stopped believing in Santa Claus a few years back (to partly relate back to this page).

P.S. The apple doesn't far from the tree.
Jepthah sacrifices his only daughter because he gave his "word to God," and Abraham almost sacrifices his son to prove his dedication to God, and not to mention Jesus who sacrifices himself. But since those are in the Bible, of course they're not disturbing.

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TheScientist Oct 08, 2009

once again-- fellow atheist here.

i dont believe in god much as the next guy but that doesn't mean we have to be ignorant about it. there are several fundemental flaws in some of the stuff you are saying:

" In fact, without religion, everyone would be an atheist. Sorry if that's too true."


without religion the term atheist would have no meaning. i think that douglass adams described it best with his story about the sky over the planet Krikkit. The sky (religion/atheism/where did we come from?) was there, yes, but it had no imact on the daily lives of the planets inhabitants and therefor had no significant meaning.

"We don't hate, we don't discriminate, we prefer to push all beliefs and emotions to the side,and judge whether or not an idea is logical."

and yet you are hating on religion with this post. you are talking down to them as if they haven't the mental capacity to for intelligent thought. Lots of good, scientific and philisophical advancement has com from religion. When Descartes famously said "Cogito ergo sum" he started off trying to prove the existance of god. many of the researchers at the LHC are looking for the "God" particle. being religious doesn't presuppose ignorance.

"Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore, just cause something as old as time itself whispers some demanding requests at VOID, DOES NOT mean that that law is broken."

i'm not actually sure what you're trying to get at here, because your "proof" switches ideals half-way thought. in any event the statistical probability that all the matter in the universe collapsed to roughly the size of a house and then exploded is neglidgibly different from the probability that a hyper-intelligent being suddenly happened and then shapped the universe.

reigion says that from nothing came god. atheists say from nothing came everything. its the same philosophy with different words.

---------

both sides have some great arguments from great posters as well as some not so great aruments from not so great posters.

Peace

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Scott Klarr Dec 01, 2008

Lol, first off, a theist is someone who believes in god. You just addressed all the believers. Learn your vocabulary.

I use to be a Christian. I know your state of mind first hand and I truly feel sorry for you. Perhaps someday you will wise up and stop wasting away the only life you get: this one.

The old argument of irreducible complex is nothing but ignorant speculation that has been refuted more times than the number of verses in the bible. If an eye has no use at a simpler state, then why do we find simpler states all through nature that all give benefit to the particular animal whom has it?

Do some research on morals and behavior (the murder/rape/hate-laden bible does not count as a source of moral guidance). Our morals and behavior are not something divine or else no human would ever murder. Moral is a phenomenon that evolved alongside social advances that allows animals to work together to create a synergy thus making each individual's life span gain the advantage over surviving alone. The mere fact that there are good atheists and not a "worldwide atheist suicide party" proves that morals do not come from having invisible friends. IF you are truly interested in learning the facts (I doubt it), you can start with studying biopsychology and the game theory.

Your stupidity and ignorance shine through your words. Get an education before claiming that everything you personally don't understand is God unless you like people with sense laughing at you.

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Christian Mar 29, 2010

hate laden?

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Try Again. Apr 08, 2009

Redalert, you never learned the whole concept of giving up when you're so far behind that the race ended a week before you walked up to the starting gate.

"You living and breathing is a proof that God exists. If you hate the idea then convince your best atheist scientist to create even a simple living organism from basic building blocks of life."

No, me living and breathing is a proof that my father had sex with my mother during her menstrual cycle and I was the fastest swimmer. C'mon now, do we have to really have an argument that humans beget other humans in this day in age? Even by returning to the "God created man" argument, God would have only created two people: they then would have had children that intermarried, and we would all be like the Hapsburgs in the late 19th century: inbred, sterile defect ridden people. The fact that nearly every human being on Earth has a unique genetic code speaks volumes into what I think of the theory of there being two universal parents to the ENTIRE human race.

"Duh, Religious people must be good person because they also think it's their purpose and nature."

What if you're religion is modern Satanism, or a religion that believes that by inflicting pain upon others you become closer to your god? Religions don't make people good, for the last time. Religions are a belief structure. People decide whether they are "good" or "evil" based on the decisions they make; there have been plenty of religious people that have committed horrible atrocities, and plenty of atheists that would be considered "saints" if they had simply prescribed to a religious model.

Stop spouting off the crap you learned in your confirmation class as dogma, and start actually having an original thought on the subject. Once you do, you might care a little less about people just agreeing with you and more about why other people don't prescribe to your beliefs in the first place.


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Jeffersonite Dec 01, 2008

"Scott K", You sir, may think I am the stupid and ignorant one. It does not surprise me in the least. Go ahead and laugh to your hearts content and think of yourself as the enlightened sensible one. I know precisely what theist means. I separated the two in order to stress the A. As you may know, prefacing with the letter a means without, lacking, against. Learning the facts has absolutely nothing to do theories of any kind, especially not the biopsychological or game kind. No one , except you, said anything about eyes at a simpler state. Each creature has the eyes, or lack of them, that God gave them to fulfill the station said creature was created for. The Holy Bible speaks to us of all manner of good and bad as it must to teach us how to live and how not to. That you once called yourself a Christian, (thanks for properly capitalizing it), doesn't make you one. The FACTS are,in spite of whatever you were taught, a person must be born again of the spirit and have an intimate personal relationship with the Christ, Lord Jesus, to be a Christian. It means caring nothing for this world. It means caring only for the Kingdom of God and taking the message of His grace and love to the lost, like you. I will pray that somewhere, sometime before it is too late, someone will lead you to the Lord. You will be welcomed into His Kingdom and all the host of heaven will rejoice when you surrender you life to the One that paid the price for your sin. Without a life of sin, we would have no witness of the grace of Lord Jesus. I was once a wicked God hater, so I know what you are going through and I feel sorry for you. I do pray that you will wise up and stop wasting the time you have in this life so that you may fulfill your purpose for existence and serve your Creator. God bless you and keep you. J

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Scott Klarr Dec 02, 2008

Give me one bit of evidence that shows that the Christian god is any more real than Thor. Then, if there is some way to prove that the god is in fact the Christian God, then how do you decide which denomination of worship is right? Many denominations believe that other denominations are going to Hell. Let me also ask you this, how many holy texts did you fully read before you claimed that Christianity was right?

"Take some time and consider the marvelous eyeball. What a splendid accident that was, huh?"
That is the standard IC argument of "its too complex to have not been designed in its current state." Well, nature proves that is simply not the case. Everything that is complex can be broken down into simpler but still beneficial states.

"The Holy Bible speaks to us of all manner of good and bad as it must to teach us how to live and how not to"
Have you actually READ the bible? It is disgusting. Your god is a vile and monstrous being. According to your bible, It would be a good deed - that actually used to be required - for me to be stoned to death for simply writing this message. Yeah, that is REAL good moral guidance! Your God is a lovely guy so covered in blood. Lets not forget that he damned all of human species to live pain-filled lives before dying all because Eve ate an apple. Someone needs to take some anger management classes!

BTW, Yes I used to be a "real" Christian, and because I have since committed the only unforgivable sin, it doesn't matter if I spend every second of every minutes of the rest of my live worshiping your make believe friend, I would still be punished and tortured for all eternity in fire. Boy, your god sure does know how to show his love. "You do not live the way I want with no evidence of my existence in a measly 50-100 years, then I am going to make you burn alive for ALL OF ETERNITY!!" Even if that god was real, he is not the type of being I would want to worship or consider righteous. By your very support of such monstrosity makes you a horrible person, IMO especially if you think that you would be compelled to murder and rape if you found out God was not real.

I'm a good person because Its the right thing to do, not because I'm afraid of eternal punishment. Someone who is good ONLY because of fear is not a good person no matter what kind of act they put on.

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Anti-Chris Oct 24, 2009

"all hail the never ignorant, everyone else is stupid godless ones. Your assumptions are false. No one thinks for me! I don't follow man, I lead man. You have no clue concerning the society I grew up in and I am not an animal of any kind. Please do remember to beg God to allow me to touch your desert dry tongue with a half drop of water after several millennium. Sorry, but as with Lazurus, the void will make such kindness impossible for you. Go on, though. Keep believing that you are far too wise for the Deity named Jehovah to exist. Continue to think there is no justice in His law. Call me and those like me ignorant fools. Hey, you might even consider tattooing 666 on your foreheads and taking up arms to massacre us in the name of no god justice. And calling yourselves wise, you became fools. I pray for mercy on you and those like you in God's love. Bless you. May you find Jesus and never want for anything. PEACE, LOVE, and AMEN."

bwahahahahaahahah! Jehovah!? 666!? oh no! Christians are so ignorant and into their own clique yes I said clique that they even had to bash on math and numerology. A number is even considered evil. all fear the number omfjesus!!!

once idiots like you destroy the world and bring upon your own "apocalypse" I'll make sure i'm alive so I can preach about dungeons and dragons and make everyone believe that the DM is the all powerful being who controls everything, then make everyone roll a die for their entire lives and so on and so forth bwahaha.

seriously jehovajeff, go to walmart, buy a bunch of crap in bulk, support your hate mongering society of logic denying ignoramuses, and then enjoy your afterlife of fairies, and magical unicorns. Oh btw when you get there tell santa he's a dick and I wanted a bike back in the day not clothes

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Spyrl 9 Feb 16, 2009

It is amazing how much fighting there is on the topic of religion, (both here and throughout history). Especially when a said religion claims to be one of universal love. If a deity is truly benevolant and "full of love", how much do you really believe (s)he would approve of all the hate and violence that is projected at those of differing DETAILS of faith?
Faith is a beautiful thing, it is healthy to believe in something -and can give meaning to one's life. But blind faith is ignorant (the same could be said for blind lack of faith). Why would God give us the gifts of reason and contemplation if we are not meant to use them. We Should question our faiths. Find what what truly does hold meaning to us and find a belief that best applies to us. We all have lived different lives and have had different experiences and thoughts. It makes sense that the details of what we hold faith in would differ.
If you are a good person doing good things, than you believe in the same thing as myself -the details of those beliefs just may differ. And it is these details that all of the fighting is about. It is understandable to want to share what has brought you joy, but you shouldn't push your beliefs onto another. And, on the same note, you should not let beliefs be pushed on you. Better to truly believe in something and be unpopular than only half believe something to "fit in". Faith should be something we find comfort, and happiness in. Not something forced fed to us.

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Redalert Apr 10, 2009

"Santa is irrelevant. But why not Thor? Why not the Olympians? Why not Allah? Why not one or several other(s) of the multitudes of gods that have appeared throughout history? Because they're ridiculous? More ridiculous than Christianity?"

There are misled theists who worship false gods and proving all of these divine beings to be true is not the issue. These people are just fulfilling their yearning and inclination toward the mystical and spiritual as manifestations of what God ideally created us to be.

"Well, they could be aware, so let's not rule that out. I would like to ask, though, if by stating "your moral compass," (as opposed to "our", perhaps) you intend to 'lower' atheists to the cognitive level of a goose? I don't intend to be horribly touchy. I merely ask to learn."

Both atheist and theist acknowledge and are aware of the constructive drive, the moral compass though they differ in meaning.

"I'd also like to add that humans are a social species, so the interest of doing good for other humans is probably the manifestation of personal interest in gaining connections or perhaps "taking one for the team". There is natural empathy and compassion. Biologically, this makes sense, or else, as a social species, we likely would have disintegrated. But we still don't need a god to follow natural inclination."

I believe you look at man at the base levels, man is more than that if you look more deeply. There are things imprinted in man that supersedes, defies mere self preservation, self aggrandizement and most can be seen on the theist side, stuff though that atheist may see as stupid. The ultimate goal of religion for me is to detach himself from these base needs of specie prosperity and propagation.

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ely Apr 08, 2009

one does not need God or Gods to have a sense of morality and understand the difference between right and wrong.

philosophy and ethics are tools that try to determine our place in this natural world, how best to treat other humans, animals, and the world in general. these sciences do not need a divine source, nor do they exclude a divine source.

atheists, agnostics, and the religious all have the same opportunities to cause "evil" in this world. all have the opportunity to view their dogma as more correct than another's dogma and decide to do the "right thing" and wipe it from existence. pagans v. christians, christians v. everyone else, jews v. islam, islam v. everyone else, etc.

in fact, with the prospect of nothing after this life it is more of an incentive to create, to do good, to do right towards all the inhabitants of this planet. an atheist wouldn't have the crutch of being able to say "i'm sorry, please forgive me father" after buggering that poor child or lopping off some "infidel"'s head and then still getting into heaven (or bettering his chances)

atheists need to do what is RIGHT; now, in THIS lifetime, because it is all that they have. No crutches, no excuses, no "God made me kill my son because he's the anti-christ" bull shite.

i am an agnostic, not atheist. not christian, nor any other -ian. I believe in a divine spark that imbued the universe with life and we are to work with that life to make it better. I don't need a named God to tell me that.

My version of Intelligent Design... The Divine _whatever_ spent 6 "days" in getting all the programming setup, all the if, then, else statements written, and quite a bit of self-regulating code to tweak things on the way. Getting that whole framework setup and then hitting the Big Bang button and see what happens. Science is the study of that work (the Vatican has a very good science program to study God's creation from a science and a religious aspect)

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Scott S. Mar 20, 2009

I have faced the same struggle as many of the people who have posted here, trying to wrap my head around the concept of death. I think that that is what it comes down to. Try to think about the end of your consciousness... imagine not thinking anymore. It is impossible for us to do. Yes, you can sit on your couch and veg out on crap tv, while not having any significant heigher level thought processes... but you can't shut it off. You can merely distract yourself. I have read several of the holy texts out there, to include; the Bible, the Book of Mormon and the Quran. I have met both virtuous and wicked people in each of the associated religions, and wicked and virtuous Atheists and Agnostics. The ability to commit offenses against another person exists in all of us. Whether that be because of evil placed within us by the devil, that whisper in your ear if you will... or the lack of divine intervention in our decision making processes, I think it is impossible to know.

I, as you may have guessed, consider myself an Agnostic. I pussy position by some peoples view. Cast your stones, I shall forgive your trespasses. Agnostics sit on the fence between the theists and atheists.

Websters defines an Agnostic as someone who does not deny the existence of God, but rather the possibility of knowing Him (Her/It).

That is me in a nut shell. I can't fathom the end of my consciousness, nor can I fathom that anyone has gotten in right either. If you hear a synic talk about Christianity, it sounds insane... as insane as Scientology to not just Christians but everyone.

For those of you who came here and said ignorant things baout just shutting up and letting people think and do what they want, (yes I am about to get slightly hostile) are you out of your ever loving mind? Much in the same way that 'all it takes for evil to triumph over good, is for good men to do nothing', all it takes for subjugation ot triumph over freedom, is for opposite minded people to say nothing. This is a healthy discussion. A necessary one as well. Most of the world beleives in some form of higher being, and of that majority, most of them want us all to be governed by the tenants of their various religions. Look at the fanatics in the Middle East, the lengths they go to in order to have a country governed by Sharia law. Look at the debate in the U.S. over Gay marriage, abortion, creationism vs evolution being taught in schools, school prayers, In God we trust on our money... the list goes on and on, and it affects each one of us in our daily lives.

Morality is relative to our socialization process. What we consider socially and morally reprehensable in America is not the same as, well lets say a Ugandan or Congolese 'rebel'. Raping of women is a hobby that receives little to no criticism by ones peers in those circles. That is how they were brought up. Read up on the affects of ones socialition process on ones actions.

To address some other comments made here;

1) though it is a valid point about stoning your fiancee, don't reduce yourself to using obvious extreme arguements in lieu of an intellectual one. No one is going to convince someone else to shut up or give up their point of view on this site.

2) whoever it was that made the comment about not being here for this life, but for the next. You are required by your faith to give up all things worldly, this includes your car, house, clothes on your back, and all of the money in your bank account. In order to live properly by this, you have to stop eating, sleeping, or anything else that would distract you form 'spreading the good word'. Because that is what you believe God asks of you. So, what was the last movie you saw in the theatre? Why were you not out spreading the word now? Why have you spent the past five minutes reading my post on this blog.

Now, my father who is a very evangelical Christian always poses the question of, 'If Christianity turns out ot be wrong, but you led your life according to its values, what harm has been done?' The well articulated arguement for living by a set code of morality. Not a lot of harm I always have to agree. However, in the process, you give up that truth seeking part of yourself, and allow whoever is in control of the religion to control your thoughts. Look of Mormonism. It has done a fantastic job of anticipating turns in the moral majority, and dictating the behavior of its believers for the past century or so. When they had a steady base, they turned form polygamy in order to appeal to the masses. They were ahead of society, but right on target with scientists, about preaching of the dangers of tobacco, alchohol, and caffeine. When the church started, they were not as straight laced as they appear to be now. As science was proving it was bad for you, the church took it as a prompt, and a prophecy was revealed to not use these things. It did take them a bit longer to catch on to the whole civil rights thing, with not allowing blacks to hold their priesthood until the '80's, but aside from that, not a bad track record or dictating behavior.

This is what many Christians, Muslims, Catholics etc... want for all of us. If someone does not agree with the tenants by which you live your life, they should not sit quietly by while you attempt to ammend the constitution to support your beliefs. That would be as wrong as those who beleive Gay marriage is a disgrace to the sanctity of the union not saying anything... (although one is reminded to not cast stones, or make claims to know Gods wishes, and perhaps let God go ahead and decide if he wants to honor that union or not on his own terms. Kinda makes sense to just leave that one alone... unless you are claiming to know what exactly God is thinking right now about the whole thing. Good luck not getting judged yourself for that one).

I digress,

My point is this, a) consider Agnosticism b) continue the debates, but in an intellectual manner that the gravity of the discussion deserves
and c) challenge yourself. So many people hate out of fear. Christians, or rather all theists, far too often try to shut people in order to not have to think about or confront their own beliefs. If what you beleive is trully correct, don't be afraid to listen to and think about the other side of the arguement. Not just for ammunition or a way to spin and convert, but for the actual merit of the view point.

Jeff's Avatar

Jeff Apr 12, 2009

Your comments are reasonable. Agnosticism is an intellectually honest position so long as one continues to explore the underlying issues of our existence in an effort to figure out what one believes is true.

I would also add that an agnostic should evaluate each belief system he or she thinks worthy of consideration and discard those that seem irrational. In doing so, I would also suggest that one disregard the behavior of some of the extreme practitioners of each belief system because those practitioners are usually not representative of the belief systems themselves (The Inquisition is not a justification for rejecting Christianity; Mao and Pol Pot are not justifications for rejecting atheism).

If you evaluate your own beliefs/understanding with an open mind when considering the claims of a given religion or of atheism you may find that your agnosticism will fade, to be replaced with an affirmative belief system / understanding. But in my humble opinion listening to the rants of rabid theists and rabid atheists is pointless.

There is a reason that moderate, intelligent people come to opposite conclusions about God. For example, there are prominent contemporary scientists who are theists, among them Francis Collins (a former atheist and head of the Human Genome Project); John Polkinghorne (Physicist and priest); Paul Davies (Physicist and cosmologist at Arizona State University. He chairs the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) postdetection committee) for starters. Other scientists are atheists. Among them, Richard Dawkins (Evolutionary biologist) and Carl Sagan (astronomer). Read them all. Evaluate them all. Make up your own mind what seems most plausible.

Listening to an atheist ranting about what God is or isn't or who Jesus is or isn't is no more valid than listening to a fundamentalist Christian bashing evolution. Each is a partisan, locked into his or her point of view and neither is thoughtfully listening to the other. The uproar is deafening.

Your father has made his choice and he is comfortable with the consequences of that choice. You get your turn to do the same. So did I. Like you, I was once an agnostic, a position that I found troubling because it does not admit to an answer. I've read much, studied much, and I am comfortable with my belief system / understanding. I still read constantly (both sides of the argument) because I am not afraid of ideas, including those I ultimately discard. The consequences for my life are mine. It is the same for all of us.

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BoredAfterReadingThis Apr 08, 2009

yawn yawn yawn

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WhyIsThisAnIssue Apr 08, 2009

"...you follow because you are too ignorant to lead, and that is why I and all Athiest are better than you, we think for ourselves, you let others do the thinking for you." Wow. Powerful words. Spoken like a true believer. Turning his hate on those who do not follow his ways. Sounds a lot like a religion to me. And it seems, like in all religions, that you have the extremists who give the rest a bad name.
You Athiests throw stones at the Christians only because there's a little, tiny, shred of doubt in your mind that "What if i'm wrong?". None of us are going to know if we're right or wrong about our personal beliefs until the end. And beliefs are personal. And very much like opinions if you know the reference. Why not each of us have our belief and go about being the good person we each want and need to be. Or is it more important to stand around in groups talking smack about the other guy and feeding off the group dynamic? Maybe work yourself into a lather? Nothing good comes from debating politics or religion. If you're ready to find God, you will. If not, so be it.
I for one refuse to believe that all of this was a string of random events that put us here and that we evolved up from mud. The world, the universe is too grand to be a coincidence. If you feel that you should think so little of yourself and us as a species, then whatever blows your hair back. You should find some solice in the approaching darkness of your pending non-existance as nothing follows. Me, I believe that this is not the end, but just one step on the path to eternity.

Eric (Lord of death and the Underworld) S's Avatar

Eric (Lord of death and the Underworld) S Apr 08, 2009

OMG!!! Reading this bickering is about as hard as believing in god (yes, I'm leaning to the atheist side in this). A lot of these posters are funny and clever and they made me laugh. Mostly creationist, pro-religion etc posters just aren't very funny (sorry it's just the truth, they are usually kinda lame and if you disagree then you're just being difficult). The point is that "atheism" is really just another religious view when argued in such a way as it is here! Albeit the lack of holding a god as omnipotent and all knowing, but a religious view all the same. A true "atheist" if you want to call it that needs not argue their stance at all since THERE IS NO STANCE TO ARGUE!!! I have no time to worry about bibles, churches and how to properly behave. I treat people well, I am thoughtful of the universe as it is the most wondrous and exciting thing beyond our imaginations and I keep an open mind to anything I hear/read/see.

I really cannot say (nor can anyone on alive, on this earth) what happens after death and where (if anywhere but the ground or a little jar) we go. If I should find myself standing in front of some massive golden gates after my demise, faced with a list of my lifelong sins I shall eat my words then and start praying.

Point is, there's not enough time on earth to worry about what everyone else is thinking. If you believe there is a god and heaven and eyeballs, fingernails and juji-fruits were designed by god then by all means go right ahead. If you want to believe we are a random and common occurance throughout the universe then you should pursue that. As long as your beliefs are not forced upon others and you don't demand others go out of their way to respect them there should really be no problems.

btw, there is no god.

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pinky214 Apr 08, 2009

Something I read somewhere:

It's natural to think that living things must be the handiwork of a designer. But it was also natural to think that the sun went around the earth. Overcoming naive impressions to figure out how things really work is one of humanity's highest callings.
Our own bodies are riddled with quirks that no competent engineer would have planned but that disclose a history of trial-and-error tinkering: a retina installed backward, a seminal duct that hooks over the ureter like a garden hose snagged on a tree, goose bumps that uselessly try to warm us by fluffing up long-gone fur.
The moral design of nature is as bungled as its engineering design. What twisted sadist would have invented a parasite that blinds millions of people or a gene that covers babies with excruciating blisters? To adapt a Yiddish expression about God: If an intelligent designer lived on Earth, people would break his windows.
The theory of natural selection explains life as we find it, with all its quirks and tragedies. We can prove mathematically that it is capable of producing adaptive life forms and track it in computer simulations, lab experiments and real ecosystems. It doesn't pretend to solve one mystery (the origin of complex life) by slipping in another (the origin of a complex designer).
Many people who accept evolution still feel that a belief in God is necessary to give life meaning and to justify morality. But that is exactly backward. In practice, religion has given us stonings, inquisitions and 9/11. Morality comes from a commitment to treat others as we wish to be treated, which follows from the realization that none of us is the sole occupant of the universe. Like physical evolution, it does not require a white-coated technician in the sky.
-STEVEN PINKER

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Marc Smith Apr 08, 2009

thank you =D

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Ian Apr 08, 2009

I have to agree with what Scott K said on Dec 13th - if god suddenly showed up i'd have to acknowledged he existed, but i dont think i'd follow him. The god of the bible is not a very nice god. He strikes me more a psychotic petulant child.

For those of you that believe in god let me ask you this - can god lie? He's all powerful right? How do you know he didn't lie to you about any of this? Why would any being that's so loving require us to bow down and worship him or suffer for all eternity? Use your brain for a minute - does that really sound like anything that's all loving?

How do you know religion isn't a test? Maybe there is a god - maybe the bible is even his words. How do you know it's not simply a test to see who is willing to defy the illogical and accept the rational? You cant prove it's not a test since you believe god is all powerful and you cant really know his mind. So maybe all the major religions are just his way of weeding out the people who have evolved to the next level - and everyone else maybe gets to go around the merry go round again until they get it right.

That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me then believing the god of the bible is a good god and someone worth worshiping.

Personally i am agnostic, not athiest. You can neither prove or disprove gods existence. So why bother wasting time on him/her/it? My view is if being a generally good person (helping my friends/family, being generally nice to other people and in general trying to leave the world a little better off then it was ) is not good enough for a god to accept me, then he's really not worth wasting any time on.

If you want to believe someone created all of this - fine. I can understand that and maybe even respect it, even if i dont believe in that myself. But i will not respect anyone who thinks the god of the bible is worth worshipping. You could have someone run around and murder and rape a 1000 people but on his death bed say he's sorry and he gets into heaven, whereas i can run around and help a 1000 people but still refuse to believe, so i should suffer forever? And you think that's a system you should believe in and worship? No - i will not respect that.

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Evan Apr 08, 2009

"why waste all your time arguing with each other trying to win this long standing argument"
Why? Because, if the way we teach our children and progress as a society is dependent on Christian ideas that evolution is a crock and that in fact there is no need to explain what we see (as we can always just say "God did it" if we cant figure it out) then how can progress possibly be made? The only way we progress is by taking something and analyzing it. Take the light bulb for example. A great invention, i think everyone agrees. Would the light bulb have been invented if no one ever considered that maybe "the candle isn't the best way to produce light". And once the light bulb was invented did we just stop trying to improve and make it better? What could possibly be done to such a perfect invention? Well we could use more than 25% of the energy to make light for starters (thus the invention of fluorescent light bulb). Will we stop there in improving this idea? Certainly not. Then why, i must ask you, should we not challenge things so that they work better, are more efficient and further progress rather than restrain it? Just as sun gods and gods of harvest were analyzed and revamped to fit with knowledge, so should the modern religions. I'm not just talking Christianity here, but all religions, religions that lead to things like terrorist attacks, religions that lead to not allowing things like stem cell research, ones that prevent freedom, nearly every religion in fact could stand to be re-evaluated. So that is my answer to why we must argue this (although it would be in the best interest of everyone to keep it civil).
I myself am not an atheist. The best way to describe me would be to say that i am an agnostic. I have gone to a catholic/Christian school my entire life and i have learned in my own time about other religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, Muslim, etc. (I have learned at least some about all the "major" religions) Through this study i realize that perhaps everyone worshiping/believing in the same thing. Whether you believe in one god, two, or seven, you are using these gods as a way to explain the unknown. So really you believe in explanations. Why then should you not, instead of creating a puzzle piece to fill in the gap, go find the puzzle piece? Atheists believe that they can find all the answers through science, theists believe that they can find all the answers in God. We all have to have faith in something, why not in what can progress us all as human beings rather than something that slows our progress.

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drew clark Apr 08, 2009

To be honest I think both religion and science can have the same positive and negative effects on people and society. On one hand we have religion: each one of them gives people something to believe in, because religion knows that this factor will keep us humans going somehow. It's inevitable, religious or atheist, that at some point we ask ourselves the Big Questions: "why are we here? where will we go? how did we get here? etc....

these questions drive us, make us live and learn. Life is also full of grief at times and most religious books are just full of common sense, giving us indications on how to lead a life the best way possible for us and those around us. Don't steal, don't lie, don't hurt, forgive, understand even when you think it's wrong.... these rules work. The problem with religion is that a bunch of fanatics have taken advantage of the above mentioned questions and played with peoples faith, specially when they were feeling the most vulnerable.... when they were looking around themselves asking: "what the f***ed happened and why?". In those moments you'll be certain to believe anything that gives you hope that life isn't so shit after all.

on the other hand you have atheism. the rejection of an existence of any form of God, or deity. Fair enough. I'm very much like St. Thomas, I believe in what I see or even more what I touch. and I have to say I'm very happy with that. Travel around the world and what you see and hear and feel can be extremely beautiful and sublime to not need a God to believe that life can be beautiful and changes for our well being can be done. I think that lacking faith in a God is easily done and can lead to a much freer life, therefore a life bound to develop and evolve more than one that isn't. Where I think a problem lies, is that most atheists, having chosen or just simply not believing in God, find that science and technology are our solutions. Science will lead us to space, science will give us great technology... But to what use?

Science spends so much of its time trying to cure all our diseases..... people rely on science, almost like religious people rely on God... they both have given us a fake hope. The world will never be disease free, there will always be something that will affect our health and science isn't actually making it better rather making it worse. What doesn't kill us here (i.e. a flu) will kill a tribesman in the jungle... probably many cultures still alive of which we don't know to much of, have fought disease like cancer and HIV in their own way, who knows how many have developed the immunity to them. Science strives to know the unknown, to discover space,and we still haven't finished to discover our planet.... there is a very high percentage of rainforest that we haven't discovered as such, and lets not forget, we are destroying it already....

when we learn maths at school... you need to study sums, multiples, subtractions and all that before you can solve an algebra equation. How is science going to answer anything if it's not dealing with the main issues. Unfortunately, we will never be supermen, no matter how much ultracool things will be created, we will just look like x-men. at the end of the day we are animals, we are here for a certain amount of time, we need to eat, drink, sleep, keep fit, breath, and take care of ourselves. We live and WE DIE. and this is where for me all of it lies, DEATH....

so many of us are just scared of it, science and religion are just not being honest. Some of us are or will be weakened in our lives, some of us will die young and some won't. we should stop trying to fix it. People think that we are different from animals because we have feelings. we are still animals. (and that doesn't mean animals don't have feelings, who will ever know, really!) By me taking my Hiv meds I'm giving myself hope, constant hope. Is that really good for me? wouldn't acceptance be a good thing to remember too. Science gives Hiv people the thought of having their own children :"OH, well, science nowadays can wash the Hiv virus out out of the sperm a certain percentage of the time".... why would you put any percentage of risk on the life of your daughter or son.

essentially we are greedy and foolish.... we focus on all the wrong things sometimes, atheists and religious. Most of you have spent time arguing on who is right and who is wrong, the believers or the non believers.... which one will lead to a faster evolution of the human being

the only thing that will help us evolve and grow is the belief in eachother, the belief in love and friendship, the belief of unity within deifference. There is no right and no wrong, there just is!!!
and till people don't realise this, nothing will be solved, the day a natural disaster will wipe out our planet, our land or home you won't have God nor an i-phone to help, your gonna wish you have even your grumpy and smelly neighbour to hold hands with just to know that you are not alone asking that question: "what the f***ed happened and why?"!!

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Sean Sanford Apr 09, 2009

If gods not real and this life is our only one, whats to stop us from doing everything morally wrong just to further our own joy?

I'll tell you. People only do what they think is right. Hitler thought it was right to exterminate the Jews and the people who instigated 9/11 thought they were doing the right thing. I could go on and on about people doing things they thought were right, but it all boils down to your social upbringing. Society is what tells us what's moral and immoral, not some ancient text (unless you live in a theocratic dictatorship). Your own moral code is based on your social experiences growing up. Friends, family, neighbors, the media, the community, your church. Everything around us influences our view of whats right and wrong. Not God. Now me personally, I have nothing against religion, but organized religion is the biggest scam in the history of mankind. All organized religion has done for mankind is rob them of their money and lives. The bible even tells us we're sheep and and God is our shepherd. If you do not give to the church you are damned to burn in hell. I dunno about you but that sounds like an organization that's trying to control me.
If God is truly omniscient, omnipotent, kind and benevolent then I think you'll go to heaven for just being a good person, not for accepting Jesus and/or going to church every Sunday. Since God sees everything I do and is everywhere I go, it seems kinda redundant to go to church and repent seeing as I could do it in the comfort of my own home.


My ideology leans more towards atheistic agnostisism because, I have never experienced anything divine, the most atrocious acts in history were carried out in the name of religion and science is my main belief system. If you can give me solid proof, an actual scientific theory on the existence of God I'll change my opinion. But until then the ball's in your court theists.

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